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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:42 am 
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Silverwalker wrote:
You know, in the new CPR you don't do mouth-to-mouth, only heart massage. It was found that the heart massage is more effective and the mouth-to-mouth only takes away time from that.
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Though in true media fashion, this has been distorted in some news reports to be about people thinking it is yucky to give mouth-to-mouth, ignoring the research. Remember this if you have to do CPR!

*was a trained medic in military service*


As family medic, I am grateful for the new information, and bow to your superior expertise.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:47 am 
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Well that was a bit of a kneejerk reaction.


...I'll be here all night.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:56 am 
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Silverwalker wrote:
You know, in the new CPR you don't do mouth-to-mouth, only heart massage. It was found that the heart massage is more effective and the mouth-to-mouth only takes away time from that.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php ... -to-mouth/

There is a minimum blood pressure that one needs to supply the brain with blood. Numerous studies have shown that it takes about 10 chest compressions in a row to create enough “pressure” to get blood to the brain. The minute you stop chest compressions, like when you are giving someone breaths, the blood pressure goes immediately back to 0. As a result of this, what these studies showed was that the way people performed CPR in the past was only getting blood to the brain 1/3 of the time during compressions.


Though in true media fashion, this has been distorted in some news reports to be about people thinking it is yucky to give mouth-to-mouth, ignoring the research. Remember this if you have to do CPR!

*was a trained medic in military service*


I wonder if there is any difference depending on the cause of "death" though.

If someone's heart just stopped beating for whatever reason then I would guess there should be enough oxygen left in the blood and/or lungs that chest compressions only would make sense. When someone "dies" directly from a lack of oxygen though, I can't imagine starting the heart back up first would do much good.

Obviously I have no experience or real knowledge of the subject, just going on what seems logical.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:39 am 
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OK, this was a fun way to end the week.

Also: *gasp* wheeze!

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:09 am 
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Ghosts are famous for going through walls. Couldn't Bill have left the room that way? Or is the whole room warded against the passage of the dead?

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 9:24 am 
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balthazar wrote:
As family medic, I am grateful for the new information, and bow to your superior expertise.

Not my expertise. Research. For a longer exlanation, read here, but basically it's what I wrote above, that stopping chest compressions interrupts the flow of blood to the brain - which takes care of the breathing. The blood flow is the most important. Get the blood flowing and the breathing starts. To take time away from that to do mouth-to-mouth is therefore counter-productive. Doing mouth-to-mouth was just put there in the beginning because it was assumed to be effective, not because of any empirical studies. There were two big studies on this recently, they checked the archives on who lived and who died from CPR. Stopping chest compressions to do mouth-to-mouth seriously lowers the patient's chance to survive.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:10 am 
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Silverwalker wrote:
Doing mouth-to-mouth was just put there in the beginning because it was assumed to be effective, not because of any empirical studies. There were two big studies on this recently, they checked the archives on who lived and who died from CPR. Stopping chest compressions to do mouth-to-mouth seriously lowers the patient's chance to survive.


Interesting. Do you know any research suggesting whether mouth-to-mouth is completely useless, or simply less important than chest compression?

Actual question: 1 responder, do compressions. 2 reponders, alternate turns doing compressions, but should the "resting" responder bother performing rescue breathing whilst the other compresses?

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Silverwalker wrote:
balthazar wrote:
As family medic, I am grateful for the new information, and bow to your superior expertise.

Not my expertise. Research. For a longer exlanation, read here, but basically it's what I wrote above, that stopping chest compressions interrupts the flow of blood to the brain - which takes care of the breathing. The blood flow is the most important. Get the blood flowing and the breathing starts. To take time away from that to do mouth-to-mouth is therefore counter-productive. Doing mouth-to-mouth was just put there in the beginning because it was assumed to be effective, not because of any empirical studies. There were two big studies on this recently, they checked the archives on who lived and who died from CPR. Stopping chest compressions to do mouth-to-mouth seriously lowers the patient's chance to survive.


That site seems to support my theory. If it's the heart that stops first, like in the case of a heart attack, then getting the blood moving again should be enough because it is already oxygenated. If the brain stops first due to a lack of oxygen though, like if someone choked or drowned, then getting blood moving again may not be the priority, since it is already depleted enough not to be able to sustain the brain even with the heart working normally.

That's just my theory and please, PLEASE do not try to use anything I say in a real life emergency, I don't have a clue what I'm talking about and I'm arguing so that I can gain understanding not because I already have it.

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:25 pm 
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So...um...where are we going, how are we going, and why does this seem VERY ominous to me...?

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:59 pm 
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I've got a question about the CPR thing -- what if you have to keep going for a while? I mean, suppose medical help won't arrive for ten, twenty, even thirty minutes. Is there any point to even trying CPR in that situation? If so, would occasional rescue breathing be a good idea? Eventually there's not going to be any oxygen in the blood to do any good, right?

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 Post Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:53 pm 
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SiliconWolf wrote:
Also: what? ghost dude is going to fade without spilling more beans?!?

Seriously! They just missed a golden opportunity to learn more about Orsintos, and possibly even a certain someone (though said someone may not have been in play yet at the time of Bill's death).

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:07 am 
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Bunny Suction wrote:
SiliconWolf wrote:
Also: what? ghost dude is going to fade without spilling more beans?!?

Seriously! They just missed a golden opportunity to learn more about Orsintos, and possibly even a certain someone (though said someone may not have been in play yet at the time of Bill's death).

Sigh. Yeah.

In other news, I asked yesterday about the whole "ghosts through walls" thing. I thought they only said the door was warded.

Also, when you give someone CPR, you're perpendicular to them -- so there's no way Gwynn could have kneed Torg in the groin unless (a) he was doing it WAY wrong, or (b) she managed to pull him around to connect.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:34 am 
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Looked like he was doing it while straddling her, which isn't exactly correct.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:52 am 
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Don't count this as spec, since I don't think it's actually going to happen, but it would be neat if Gwynn or Torg pointed out to Sintos that, as a ghost, he can walk through walls, and so could have left the room at any time in the last 30 - 40 years, prompting this reaction.

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 Post Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:42 pm 
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Fianna Lord wrote:
Don't count this as spec, since I don't think it's actually going to happen, but it would be neat if Gwynn or Torg pointed out to Sintos that, as a ghost, he can walk through walls, and so could have left the room at any time in the last 30 - 40 years, prompting this reaction.
Well he did walk through the vault door, so he would know he could phase through objects. I don't know if this means anything, but the vault is underground, and surrounded by dirt. He would have to pass into that dirt to get out. The vault was constructed to keep anything from getting out, but it also kept things from getting in.

Now as for him not staying around, you have to remember that Captain Botanical was stopping him from "moving on" for forty years. Once Cap'n Bot left, Bill's soul could finally leave. And it's possible he might not of had a choice in the matter.

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