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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:52 pm 
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Bandersnatch wrote:
declinator wrote:
I really need to put my suspension of disbelief dial to full throttle for this plot line. The danger to humans of incendiary devices and the blazes created by them is not only the heat, but also the depletion of oxygen (and creation of lots oiif nasty stuff creating smoke poisoning), and there's limited help provided by a trenchcoat, even if it's lined.


But it's Riff's trenchcoat! So it's all good. Riff's Trenchcoat is Magic!(TM)


Being that it is Riff's trench-coat, I was a bit worried about what he might have in the pockets and if it should be exposed to flame.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:08 pm 
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I'm sure he would have removed any incendiary, explosive, or radioactive items before going out on Hero Patrol.

Too bad he gave his silver-lined trenchcoat to Arminius. That silver might have reflected the heat... or it might have conducted it. Can't tell without experiments. Science!

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:25 pm 
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Bunny Suction wrote:
Quote:
The strakoi had little trouble finding and capturing Philinnon apparently, because they accomplished that very quickly. But if the vrykolakas weren't out to exterminate the vorpyr before the strakoi captured Philinnon, then why did Urja attack Vistuvius after he appeared to help the vorpyr? The explanations still don't add up. The various vampires seem to be lying and betraying each other all the time.

Either the Vrykolakas were previously out to exterminate just Sam, for his insult, or they were previously out to exterminate the entire Vorpyr circle. If we assume the former, then the Vrykolakas turning on Vistuvius for helping Sylvia restart the Vorpyr circle makes no sense. If we assume the latter, then Menelaus' claim that the Vrykolakas are only now trying to wipe out the entire Vorpyr circle because the Strakoi have Philinnon makes no sense.

So, no, there really doesn't seem to be any plausible or internally consistent explanation for the events of this storyline.Circle Maybe Pete still has something up his sleeve that will straighten it out.


The Strakol had a long term plan to wipe out the Lysinda Circle that did not involve the Vryko's.
http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20151210
Philinnon was loyal to the Lysinda Circle until Sam insulted her. Urja was given the job of killing Sam, but kept failing. I think Sam became Urja's White Whale and she was obsessed with killing Sam and all who helped him. I'm not sure Philinnon wanted to go after Sylvia.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Vrykos originally wanted to kill sam because he pissed off the queen.

Queen gets kidnapped and strakoi demand the vrykos destroy the entire lysinda circle.

So the vrykos now (still) want to kill sam (whom they thought was the last anyway). Nothing changes.

The kidnapped queen only adds to fuel their desire to kill sam. And incidentally, now sylvia as well.

Really, this doesn't change much from the vryko's standpoint. Nothing confusing here. They're gonna continue to do what they were doing. Don't think too hard about their motives.

Before urja killed the bloodkeeper, they probably would have let sylvia go and just killed sam.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:52 pm 
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Methinks Riff's been paranoid about fire ever since the bROKEN incident, which is why he fixed the sprinklers.

Timeline of the Vampire wars as near as I can tell:

-Strakoi emerge from Romania commanding powerful magic and abilities. Side with the oppressed Vrykos to overthrow the Vorpyr
-Lysinda circle betrays the other Vorpyr and sides with the Strakoi
-Other Vorpyr subjugated/eradicated
-Lysinda circle granted full authority over the new world, Strakoi cannot set foot there without the circle leader's permission. They do not understand the full extent of that land just yet. This edict is enforced magically.
-The Strakoi bloodkeeper alone is allowed passage to America, in exchange for someone named Pierre.
-Lysinda circle and Vryko stragglers arrive in America.
-Urja is turned somewhere in this general timeframe.
-At some point, Lysinda reaches out to the leader of the Vrykos (possibly back during the war) offers them full freedom, equal rights, and the protection of the circle while in America.
-Strakoi realize that America is a very rich and resourceful land and that the new world is more extensive than they realized. They begin plotting the downfall of the Lysinda circle to render the pact void, thus allowing them free dominion.
-Urja begins hunting down her former family members to reclaim her blood.
-Izzy and Anthony go on the run.
-Strakoi, acting through intermediaries, use human vampire hunters to whittle down the Lysinda circle numbers
-Events of the chapter 'Vampires'
-Misc. misadventures of the Sampire. Strakoi presumably realize that Sam is such an idiot that it's only a matter of time until he is killed.
-Events of the chapter 'Boy's Night Out'
-Sam insults Philinnon, ostracizes the Lysinda Circle from the Vrykos, somehow.
+ The Strakoi see this as an opportunity to finish their plan of annihilating the Lysinda Circle, allow it to unfold.
+ Philinnon tasks Urja with killing Sam
-Further misadventures of the Sampire here.
-Defender's Story 'You Don't Mess With the Sampire' occurs.
-Izzy and Anthony start up his Minion Master persona
-Torg calls Sam to join his minions.
-Events of 'Minions Are Forever'
+ Sam flees fearing Vryko retaliation
+ Izzy abandons Anthony as Vrykos overrun the base
+ Anthony is turned
-Sam 'killed' by Gnaww. It is unknown if him being this badly damaged and Sylvia being staked but not killed is enough to void the pact with the Strakoi. Presumably it isn't.
-Sylvia, thought dead, is revived and begins recovering.
-Sylvia visits Strakoi bloodkeeper. He realizes that this is an ample opportunity to get both of the last Vorpyr in the same place to be annihilated by the Vrykos.
-Urja kills Vistuuvius.
-Sam is revived, the pair seeks shelter at a Minion Master base
-Philinnon taken hostage due to Urja's actions, somehow.
-Urja leads the assault on Sam and Sylvia after they broadcast their location thanks to Anthony's knowledge
+ Urja and Kusari square off
+ Riff kills Anthony
+ Kusari killed by ancient Vryko-vamp
-Present


My questions are:
Was Philinnon really going to throw away such an advantageous alliance simply because of Sam's idiocy? (note: she was all geared up to end the circle before she was kidnapped, the whole 'Philinnon is their hostage' thing can only have happened recently.)
How did the Strakoi capture Philinnon, who last we saw was on American soil? (the wording of Lord Menelaus' statement makes it seem like it 'just' happened right after Vistuuvius was killed)

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:16 pm 
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Pavod wrote:
The Strakol had a long term plan to wipe out the Lysinda Circle that did not involve the Vryko's.
http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20151210
Philinnon was loyal to the Lysinda Circle until Sam insulted her. Urja was given the job of killing Sam, but kept failing. I think Sam became Urja's White Whale and she was obsessed with killing Sam and all who helped him. I'm not sure Philinnon wanted to go after Sylvia.

It did involve the Vrykos though - Vistuvius was counting on the Vrykos' hatred of the Vorpyrs to cause them to follow Sylvia back to her lair and end them once and for all. I agree with you that I think Philinnon's hatred of the Lysinda Circle was restricted to Sam, specifically. But then why did Urja, Agata, and the rest of the Vorpyrs kill Vistuvius for helping Sylvia? At that point they had no idea Sam was even in the picture since Sylvia was ostensibly helping restore Lysinda, not Sam.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:18 pm 
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Love panel 4! Hero moment Riff!

Also cool heat wave effect Pete!

Riff is delicious!!! (hubba hubba? ;) )At least you don't taste like chocolate Riff!!

I've had the same avatar since 2008. I didn't think any panel would replace it. There's been so many amazing panels I could have replaced it with but, I've found it! Panel 4.

Now i just want it in color! *puppy dog eyes*

----

Galaxy Hunter thanks for that vampire timeline!

Galaxy Hunter wrote:
My questions are:
Was Philinnon really going to throw away such an advantageous alliance simply because of Sam's idiocy? (note: she was all geared up to end the circle before she was kidnapped, the whole 'Philinnon is their hostage' thing can only have happened recently.)
How did the Strakoi capture Philinnon, who last we saw was on American soil? (the wording of Lord Menelaus' statement makes it seem like it 'just' happened right after Vistuuvius was killed)


From my understanding If she truly thought Sam was the last member of the Lysinda circle, I do believe she'd throw away the alliance due to Sam's insult. If (and until currently) Sam was the last Lysinda circle vampire than he's had years to create new vampires but has not. She probably assumes he's incapable of creating new ones,thus the Lysinda circle is dead save for Sam, and he has insulted her, and she seems like a proud woman. Plus with one Lysinda vampire who cannot make more than from her perspective there is no alliance. Sam and his cirkail doesn't have the numbers to back the Vryko's up if the Strakoi decided to declare war on the Vrykos. We know the Strakoi are magically bound out of the americas, but Vrykos are everywhere, Europe as well. The Lysinda Circle/Sam Cirkail Mamajama can't help the Vrykos if the Strakoi broke an alliance and attacked their people in Europe, while I assume Lysinda and her much larger circle could have.

Philinnon must have been in Europe (maybe Greece)? In order to have been captured, or -SPEC.


Last edited by NovemberMists on Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:18 pm 
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Spirantz wrote:
Vrykos originally wanted to kill sam because he pissed off the queen.

Queen gets kidnapped and strakoi demand the vrykos destroy the entire lysinda circle.

So the vrykos now (still) want to kill sam (whom they thought was the last anyway). Nothing changes.

The kidnapped queen only adds to fuel their desire to kill sam. And incidentally, now sylvia as well.

Really, this doesn't change much from the vryko's standpoint. Nothing confusing here. They're gonna continue to do what they were doing. Don't think too hard about their motives.

Before urja killed the bloodkeeper, they probably would have let sylvia go and just killed sam.

Except when Sylvia asked for Lysinda's blood, it was to restore her, not Sam. Nobody had any idea restoring Sam was the end goal, including Sylvia. The Vrykos' turned on her for what everyone believed was helping Lysinda.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Bunny Suction wrote:
Except when Sylvia asked for Lysinda's blood, it was to restore her, not Sam. Nobody had any idea restoring Sam was the end goal, including Sylvia. The Vrykos' turned on her for what everyone believed was helping Lysinda.


Maybe Phillinnon saw the benefits of wiping out the whole circle once she targeted Sam. She never thought about/saw the advantages of ending her alliance with the Lysinda circle due to respect, but with Sam's insult and him being the last, than she could start to consider what the end of the circle could do for her. She could flood the americas and get her people out of Europe where the Strakoi are presumably breathing down their necks / space is limited.

Sam and Sylvia; small potatoes, but a resurrected Lysinda? All the new opportunities she's thought about have no chance.

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:37 pm 
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Except Philinnon has no reason to kill the Vorpyr because Vrykos can flood the Americas either way. Perhaps killing Vistuvius wasn't the only thing Urja showed too much initiative on. Maybe even the idea that going after Sam applied generally to the last remnant of the Lysinda circle was her idea. In short, although a bit hamfisted, could this perhaps all be explained by the very thing the doctor alleged - Urja is just plain stupid?

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 Post Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:33 pm 
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I've been wondering how the Strakoi knew Urja killed Vistuvius. Urja didn't think they would find out, since they lack the Vryko mental link. Apparently they figured it out somehow...

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:33 am 
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MasterPokey wrote:
declinator wrote:
I really need to put my suspension of disbelief dial to full throttle for this plot line. The danger to humans of incendiary devices and the blazes created by them is not only the heat, but also the depletion of oxygen (and creation of lots of nasty stuff creating smoke poisoning), and there's limited help provided by a trenchcoat, even if it's lined.


That's basically required for all of the series, though. Why make special note of it here? It's always been outlandish and unrealistic in places to help serve the story. A lot of more extreme story driven things are. It's always been a story with inter-dimensional travel, demons, undead, aliens, highly sentient animals and the supernatural among other unrealistic things. I think you have to give it a pass on this out of all things.


I have no problems with suspension of disbelief for interdimensional travel, inflatable technology, undead with varying abilities, demons, unkillable fighters, aliens and what not. Perhaps because that's all sufficiently removed from reality. Fires however are a real thing (as are radio shows, games consoles, data-gouging internet companies...). Every day people die of smoke inhalation in what one would consider rather minor domestic fires. Probably I have to add sluggy fires to the first list of outlandish stuff and not think of them as related to any real thing (did not have similar problems with the Oasis-caused magic fires).

Side note: Of course there's no real all-encompassing Grab-all search engine in the real world. It's quite obviously an ironic exaggeration of a well-known Fortune-500 company. Same with the super-miniature iSophagus player, Bleatr, etc. For me, the fire lacks such an ironic component - perhaps Isabella could have labelled her incendiary devices "Burn-em-all" instead of just "Incendiary" to make clear that the fire they spew is mostly fictitious.

But all this is just my reaction to the strip. The fire irked me, and I posted it...

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:22 am 
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Lord Golbez wrote:
Except Philinnon has no reason to kill the Vorpyr because Vrykos can flood the Americas either way. Perhaps killing Vistuvius wasn't the only thing Urja showed too much initiative on. Maybe even the idea that going after Sam applied generally to the last remnant of the Lysinda circle was her idea. In short, although a bit hamfisted, could this perhaps all be explained by the very thing the doctor alleged - Urja is just plain stupid?

This is the only explanation I can see that might help explain it, although it still requires some pretty rigorous mental gymnastics to make work.

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