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 Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 6:46 pm 
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Yup, read it. But since then we've seen that Dunuloa and Basphomy are one person, and since Siphaniana stated that the Moon-Twin-Sun-Twin thing is a scholarly mistake, I don't see why Rana wouldn't still be around in some form like Dunuloa is. Personally, I like to think that the "Moon Twin" that we saw mentioned in the Holiday Wars arc IS Rana, especially since she and her sister apparently became antagonistic to each other after their brother's death. And the artwork dang near matches Rana's OVERREACTION mode, not to mention the persona. Also, we still don't know who Mrs Claus is, which has been bugging me.

Also, Orisintos labs was a government agency studying ghosts, zombies, and apparently Oasis before Dr. Steve adopted her, so Steve Hereti wasn't the only one studying and experimenting with the supernatural. Focusing too much on him could be a case of tunnel vision.

I mean, your theory could be right, since we've seen that Dunuloa's spell could trap gods and Rana was her guinea pig, but we only saw her trapped in an inanimate object. K'Z'K was trapped inside humans, but only parts of him. I don't know if the spell could trap a whole god inside a person.

Another thought that hit me overnight was that maybe Oasis actually has the power of Prozoatu, despite the apparent contradiction. Her ability is that she can create fire. Fire is destructive if used a certain way, but can also be used constructively with knowledge and control. Plus there is her ability to reincarnate-- something that just screams of The Creator. And it may even be why the Necklace separated from Zoe-- the power of The Destroyer was canceled out by the power of The Creator. So that's another duo that Oasis and Kusari might represent.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:26 pm 
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Didn't Dunuloa trap *all* of KayZee in Farahn just before he got scrolled?

Interesting angle about fire, but the thing about fire is that it is *always* destructive. The combustion reaction never *creates* anything on its own; it just increases chaos. It's possible to use the unleashed heat (or even the constituent elements) for a constructive purpose, but that seems a pretty thin thread on which to hang Oasis as a Prozoac (though come to think of it, she could benefit from some Prozac).

Of course we've never even seen Prozoato(u?) in any form, so who the heck knows? Maybe this will turn out to be the Matrix, where one side grows or shrinks to balance the other.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Ah, but that's the thing. Fire isn't always destructive. Fire enabled almost everything humans have been creating since the stone age. If you follow the science metaphor a bit closer, then nothing can be created or destroyed-- chemically speaking, fire is a reaction, a transformation that releases heat. The "Destroyer" may exist as a literal Demon that breaks the rules of reality with magic all the time, but Prozoatu hasn't been seen, only heard of. That its power would appear as a tool and not a reality bending shortcut would befit the subtler way that Aspect of existence works. In the same way, Riff's inventions, the products of science, may have a destructive purpose, but they are creations, and they too release energy. Everything must, those are the rules of existence from the perspective of Prozoatu as the one that defines the rules of the universe and Kozoaku as the one that breaks them. There is enough metaphor in there to build an inverted flying pyramid.

Plus, who says pyrokinesis is the only mental power she has? We still don't know how she reincarnates.

The thing about this theory that it needs to make it work is Oasis' powers still need an explanation that doesn't invoke a supernatural cause which would make her a product of K'Z'K's nature. And several possibilities have been seen, like the 4U nanites. But yeah, its a more far out speculation than my other two, I'll readily admit.

Also, first point, K'Z'K is technically a demon, so I'm not sure if the same rules apply to him as to gods. :-P

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 Post Posted: Fri May 23, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Formless One wrote:
Also, we still don't know who Mrs Claus is, which has been bugging me.


Do we really need a major backstory explanation for everyone though? Is there actually any real mystery surrounding Mrs. Claus or is it simply the expectation of mystery? Can't she just be Mrs. Claus? Sure, she might be some character we know by another name or someone associated with Mohkadun or some other point in Sluggy history. Then again, she could just be the woman Santa marries. If there's never any further explanation of her character, I wouldn't see it as an oversight, but merely as an indication that no further explanation is necessary. If we actually see some history of how the Krig became Santa, then we'll probably learn whatever we need to about Mrs. Claus.

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 Post Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 4:51 am 
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See, the thing is she is at least as old as Basphomy based on their conversation. Possibly older. Its not so much expecting a mystery as using the same scene over and over again to justify Basphomy not remembering her time as Dunuloa that after a while, the conspicuous lack of the other critical character of that scene in Mohkadun makes me... curious.

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 Post Posted: Sat May 24, 2014 5:48 pm 
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CheeseWhisper wrote:
Yeah, duh. Thanks for the recalibration.

This one still makes me wonder, though; is Oasis still the same person she was when she was born?


My interpretation of that strip, consistent with the Rana theory, is that Dr Steve found a way of controlling Rana, and bound her into a newly created human embryo (much as Dunuloa found a way to bind people into paper or cloth). Rana's spirit can now reconstitute Oasis' body any time it dies.

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:53 pm 
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Formless One wrote:
Another thought that hit me overnight was that maybe Oasis actually has the power of Prozoatu, despite the apparent contradiction. Her ability is that she can create fire. Fire is destructive if used a certain way, but can also be used constructively with knowledge and control. Plus there is her ability to reincarnate-- something that just screams of The Creator. And it may even be why the Necklace separated from Zoe-- the power of The Destroyer was canceled out by the power of The Creator. So that's another duo that Oasis and Kusari might represent.

I don't think that just creating fire qualifies Oasis as a possible Prozoatu host- after all, Prozoatu created the entire universe. If Oasis was a host for Prozoatu, I'd expect to see 2 things: the ability to create anything, not just fire, and a less psychotic/aggressive personality. After all, from the limited amount we've seen about Prozoatu, he's basically a good guy. Oasis is a psychotic murderer.

A scrap of evidence, however, for the Oasis/Kusari = Prozoatu/Kozoaku duality is the colors that Kusari wears- purple and black, the same colors as K'Z'K. There's not much more that I can see, however. If you can find any, please post it! This is an interesting theory, even though I am dubious.

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Would you say you're... Scoobus dubious?

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 1:47 pm 
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SheVa Nine wrote:
If Oasis was a host for Prozoatu, I'd expect to see 2 things: the ability to create anything, not just fire, and a less psychotic/aggressive personality. After all, from the limited amount we've seen about Prozoatu, he's basically a good guy. Oasis is a psychotic murderer.

Oasis is a puppet: http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20010203
And likely an innocent: http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20060508
Dr. Steve set her on a path to "realize her true potential." Also to "know herself" after which he felt she'd be responsible enough to be free of his control: http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20010221
http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20020214
Sounds like a strong case for her being the avatar of Prozoato, but not knowing it. She may not be able to tap in to her full creative potential because of her lost knowledge of her identity.

You know it just occurred to me... while Oasis and K'Z'K are both generally pretty bada$$, we've never really understood the exact nature of the cataclysm portended to result from the two of them being brought together. But what about this... if K'Z'K is one pillar of reality and Oasis (unbeknownst to even herself) is the other, wouldn't their combined powers essentially equate to mastery over all reality? The power to create or destroy at will... pretty cataclysmic...

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 2:41 pm 
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SheVa Nine wrote:
A scrap of evidence, however, for the Oasis/Kusari = Prozoatu/Kozoaku duality is the colors that Kusari wears- purple and black, the same colors as K'Z'K. There's not much more that I can see, however. If you can find any, please post it! This is an interesting theory, even though I am dubious.

Well, there is the literary perspective that Oasis is associated with the Phoenix, which has the power of life. Whereas K'Z'K literally has the power of death (the ability to raise the recently dead, anyone?).

Now, superficially it might appear that Kusari also has that power (raising herself from the dead, I mean), but Kusari seems to be explicitly less powerful than Oasis, in the same way that the Demons from the Dimension of Pain were more powerful than the Mutants of Pang; she has never been implied to have any further powers or abilities than the ones we have seen from her already. Nor is she free from the fate web, since the murder of Brian Rammer happened because the Fate Spiders manipulated the Hereti Corp fate line, and Kusari was assigned the task of committing the crime. She's like an off-brand Oasis made with the original Oasis' experiment notes to try and counter Steve Hereti's ultimate goal of vengeance. As opposed to a possible god or avatar of K'Z'K. Otherwise, why would they need Oasis if Kusari is just as powerful? Wouldn't she have magic like Gwynn? Or be an Ordained like Riff? So I think she's a red herring.

Oasis being a murderer doesn't suggest that destruction is the intended use of her powers or abilities. She was definitely brainwashed, and in the World of Shadows, Torg decided that in his mind she was innocent. That may or may not be the case since that was only in his mind, but it does suggest that we can't take her assassin training for granted when talking about her role in the Universe.

There is also her statements in Phoenix Rising to her master about "only knowing how to kill", and the implication I got from that is that she is dissatisfied with that limitation. She was quite caring about Feng and the Zalias, in a way that isn't clearly a product of her brainwashing like her love of Torg, and in her next incarnation it wasn't until Feng was murdered on camera that she reverted to her psychosis.

(Incidentally, I would love to see what became of the Zalias and how Oasis helped them disappear. It would be ironic to see her use similar methods as Mastermind Torg, using safe-houses and secret bases...)

My thesis is that we don't really know that fire is the only thing she could create. In fact, I think there is a piece of evidence out in the open that it isn't. We have confirmation that she does leave a corpse every time she dies, yet somehow always appears in a new, unscathed body. I've noticed that most people cite the fight outside of Officer Tod's police station where a charred and unidentifiable body was found, but much better evidence IMO would be Another Year in the Life of a Villain where Strom beheaded her at HC headquarters, and she still resurfaced several months later and killed those agents that were sent to hunt down the Zalias. I bet that, if she is an avatar of Prozoatu, her mind powers are what allow her to create these new bodies.

Finally, we don't actually know that Prozoatu is good or bad, since it was never given a sentient avatar like K'Z'K was. It could well be that Prozoatu and Chaz (who is imbued with The Destroyer's power) share something in common-- they are neither good nor evil. The protagonists take creation for granted, but both of the Apocalypse scenarios that Torg and Riff witnessed in their dimensional journeys were examples of endless suffering. The characters are good or evil based on what they chose to do with their lives, but most of us agree that Schlock's "Paradise" was terrible for everyone.

...Of course, this is again the least plausible theory of the three I presented, and I readily admit that. Its also the one I think would be the most ingenious, because it appears to be a paradox. :torg:

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 3:08 pm 
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I still want to know what goes into creating/procuring a "replacement Kusari".

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 7:00 pm 
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Not being bound by the fate web does not mean not being influenced at all by anyone who is bound by the web. If that were true, Oasis' actions would not be altered in any way by the presence of Torg, or Zoe, or members of hC. I'm not saying Kusari isn't bound to the web, but the reason you gave was pretty weak. If hC was manipulated and then gave orders to Kusari, the result would be the same. I don't actually remember the comic in which they said that the spiders manipulated the web for Rammer to die, so maybe I'm missing something though....

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:07 pm 
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CheeseWhisper wrote:
I still want to know what goes into creating/procuring a "replacement Kusari".

I've always thought Kusari's own dialog makes it pretty clear she is (does the plural of Kusari have an s?) an Oasis based clone but the questions remain are they created through technology or magic and does each one have the previous memories transferred to them or just get a briefing that brings them up to speed?

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 Post Posted: Wed May 28, 2014 8:28 pm 
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Huh... I can't seem to find the first time we met the (now Freelance) Fate Spider. I know that we see him in "The Spider's Apprentice" (which came after "Aylee"), but the way he is introduced and from my memory, I could swear we had seen him in an earlier strip. But since I can't find it, then I guess I'll have to eat crow and admit that Kusari might also be fate-less.

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 Post Posted: Thu May 29, 2014 10:59 am 
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Formless One wrote:
Huh... I can't seem to find the first time we met the (now Freelance) Fate Spider. I know that we see him in "The Spider's Apprentice" (which came after "Aylee"), but the way he is introduced and from my memory, I could swear we had seen him in an earlier strip. But since I can't find it, then I guess I'll have to eat crow and admit that Kusari might also be fate-less.

I believe it's this one: http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20050816

...but I don't think you're wrong about Kusari and her relationship to the web (as opposed to Oasis and her web-freedom).

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