I much profer Anthem for Doomed Youth by Wilfred Owen


Only the dead have seen the end of war.

Great. Can we let off with the spelling police as a childish debate tactic now?

Ooh! Ooh!

Sluggy's Corollary to Godwin's Law:

Any discussion of War will inevitably become sidetracked into nitpicking discussion of odd, French-derived spellings: materiel, Courts-Martial, enfilade, etc. At some point, someone with an animated GIF avatar will invoke "Blame Napoleon." At that point, the argument is effectively over.

The other thing that can happen to a discussion of war here is that it turns into an extended dialogue between one or more pacifists who assert that war is never necessary, and one or more non-pacifists who assert that war is sometimes necessary. This can go on almost indefinitely if not stopped by an outside force.

This can frequently occur with no mention of Napoleon whatsoever; it represents an alternative state for the conversation to lock into.

Oh, and every time anyone mentions World War II as a mere analogy, it inevitably turns into an excrutiatingly detailed debate about the relative merits of the military hardware of each side in that war.

Throwing myself completely into the first post of the topic:

Lest we forget indeed.

I think that statement sums up exactly what Remembrance/Veterans day should mean to people. We should remember the sacrifices that our grandfathers and great-grandfathers made, of the truly obscene number of lives lost. We should remember that this is war.

I am not a total pacifist, I should note. I'm not totally convinced that war should be removed entirely from the nation's toolbox, as it's a very powerful tool. But Lest We Forget, it's a very costly tool.

In Australia, we have War Memorials everywhere, scattered in suburbs, often surrounded by beautiful gardens. On each Memorial is engraved the names of all the locals who were killed in action, in each of the wars that we Australians have fought. To me, this is a powerful rendition of Lest We Forget. Personally, none of my known relatives died in the wars (though my great-grandfather fought in WW1). But not 10 minutes walk from my home, there is a small memorial, and on that memorial are the names of almost 200 people from the Clayton Area who died in each war. That's a humbling thing to think about, seeing as back then Clayton couldn't have had a population of more than 1000-2000.

So, that's what I feel Remembrance day is for me, and what I feel it should be to our politicians. A remembrance that no war is without cost. And that cost is human lives, on either side. We should always think very carefully about when that tool is used.

I'm not going to get dragged into the politics, just add some thoughts along the lines of OldCrow's original intentions.

To those who fought for us before: we thank you and we can never truly repay you.
To those who fight for us now: we thank you and pray you return to your homes safely.
To those who will fight for us in the future: we thank you and hope that we only ask you to do this as all else failed.

Kirby1024: I agree that was is sometimes necessary, and that we should only use it when presented with no other reasonable choice.

1. Thank you, Kea, for both actions - moving this to POOP, and adhering to the promise of approval for Ourkansas if s/he kept cool for a week.

2. I'm answering w/out reading 3 pages of the thread, because this response/action exemplifies what is so cool about the Sluggy POOP forum. I've been relatively quiet here, mainly because I've had so much fun reading you guys. Well, that and I’ve not had much time at work to post recently – we’re swamped!

In response to "Ourkansas'" allegation of “anti-Right Bias” - I can only say (although I've not presented much evidence of it so far) that I'm, as I like to joke, "Just to the Right of Darth Vader". Nobody has beaten me up, either in public or private. I have not felt any need to become obnoxious, mainly because I don't like to be, but also because the folk here are willing to actually debate in at least a semi-rational manner, rather than toss names at each other (generally; yes, we all succumb to moments of weakness, and that too will be forgiven - as long as it doesn't happen too often).

So, anyway, let the POOP pile up, and again thanks to Kea for keeping us all... sort of... sane.

Mr. "Political Junkie – now I suppose I should read the other three pages of how this ‘Tribute Turned Debate’ hashes out…" Jest

The fact that I'm still here shows there's no anti-right bias.

At least not of the sort OK is claiming, Veeb. ;)

Yeah, I'm not so much right-wing as right-angled...and I love the degree of tolerance and legitimate debate.

Unlike, say, the board my girlfriend hangs out on occasionally, which routinely degenerates into bloody insurrection...and it's supposed to be about child-rearing!

Besides, if anyone ever got too personal...I'd have to pull out the 'ol Snaglepuss routine..."Put 'em up, put 'em up..."

Naahh, 'tis all good!

[content deleted - ad hominem - Kea]

My rememberance day was weird. For school we had an assembly, we stood for the guard and people read their poems and etc. But I was disapointed in two things. Us, the students who couldn't keep our damn mouths shut, and a few of the people doing presentations. I'll gladly acknowledge the afganistan vet who came from Red Deer but it was weird, if he wasn't there I don't think the assembly would have been any better or worse. He sort of stood up there and said that he blows things up and that Afgan was the first major military operation Canada has been in. Unfortunetly for me, a person who wants information and inspiration, I found it kinda sad that nothing more was said about it then, "My job is to blow things up."

And I remember last year we had a long powerpoint presentation by the major who visited where he went into good detail about the things they were doing in Afganistan including the programs for fixing water systems and building homes. So honestly, I don't know how to feel about it. The whole thing seemed like, "Oh hear we go again." It's like how I hear kids in grade 10 complain about how everything they read in english is about racism and that they think the point has already been driven home. It's weird. And I doubt any of them get it at all.

My family has two WW1 vets and my grandpa who was in the Canadian Navy in the 50's. I will honour their sacrifises and all others who die for war wether it's by our hands or theirs. They deserve respect because they believed in fighting to make others lives easier.

Gorilla, i've gotta say that though ourkansas is a bit rough and rude with what he said, i have to agree with the majority of whoat he said. But then again thats not what this thread is about either.

as to what the thread is about, i find it deplorable certainly, however there is a long and distinguished history to waving the bloody shirt, everyone does it, and its not going to stop until the public stops reacting to it. unfortunately the public will never stop reacting to it because the public is empathic enough to put themselves in the position of being the losing family.

in the end, the only answer is to ignore it, giving it neither power to move you nor ability to disgust you