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neosonichdghg
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:23 pm |
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:07 am Posts: 218
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I just realized something. Recently it was quasi-certainly established that Oasis transfers to or creates a new body each time she resurrects. It has been at least foreshadowed that Chaz and Oasis will somehow be connected in the future (perhaps literally). Chaz is powered by innocent blood. If Oasis can take over or create a fresh body, we have a very important semantic issue to resolve.
What makes blood innocent? The spirit's innocence or the body's innocence?
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The Max
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:31 pm |
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Traditionally, blood (the humours) has always been connected to the soul. Those with divine right were considered "blue bloods" before it became a sarcastic insult. Vampires, the incarnation of sin, were bloodless and stole blood from others. The ancient Greek pantheon was fueled by ichor, a golden humour.
Given that current spec about Oasis suggests a Greek origin (Artemis), it is reasonable to assume that her blood will be connected to her soul. Therefore, however she gets her body, it's her actions that determine who she truly is.
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Tonkarz
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:51 pm |
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:54 am Posts: 379
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Interesting. One supposes that both body and soul should be "innocent", because the sword requires blood, which is of the body, but has on it's own no definable characteristic of innocent.
To put it another way, would synthetic blood be considered innocent? I doubt it could wake Chaz. And could swinging the sword through, say, alt Kiki's ghost wake the sword? No, because it requires blood.
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The Max
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Post Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:56 pm |
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You bring up a good point with the synthetic blood.
There is more to innocence, in my opinion, than a simple lack of guilt. There is no neutrality. Every action further defines you. Chaz is awakened by the blood of the innocent, the acquirement (?) of which tends to be a tad evil-ish. That again raises the question about who made Chaz, and why.
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neosonichdghg
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:26 am |
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Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:07 am Posts: 218
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Well, let's set aside the body generation for a second. The semantics end up being too arbitrary. What if Oasis is taking over other people's bodies? Then it becomes an issue of where the power comes from. If Chaz wants a dead innocent, then Oasis woudn't work. But if there's some kind of mana or magic in the blood itself, a lifetime of innocence would probably count more than a few hours/days/weeks of violence. And we have seen that dead flesh retains whatever magic is necessary. Remember the arm, held by the demon?
If an innocent dies, and Oasis takes over the body, whatever mana or tappable force exists would probably still linger for a while.
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BlankSlate
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:28 am |
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2192
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It is suggested that it might have nothing to do whatsoever with the actual purity of the blood, if such a thing can even be measured, but rather the perceptions of the swordbearer. It is possible that you could dip the blade in tomato juice and, if you think it is the blood of a two week old orphan, Chaz would ignite to full strength. It might not even have anything to do with even the appearance of blood and might be connected with emotion triggered by the sight, revultion or rage or loss. Or it might merely need contact with some portion of the deceased to tap into the soul and even a strand of hair would be enough. Or Chaz can activate any damn time he wants but feels some sort of cost must be in place to prevent him from eternally being bothered or to appease some sense of sadism or just to screw with mortal men.
Nobody really knows.
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Tonkarz
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:59 am |
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:54 am Posts: 379
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Well, who was the sword bearer when alt-Bert impaled himself? Considering that Torg had not met alt-Bert, his perceptions were essentially null. Also considering the fact that Torg was not wielding the sword at the time, the distinction of innocence could not have been his to make, even subconsciously. Unless the sword has some link to him... but there is no evidence for that. I don't think the perceptions of the wielder matter; I think it's the perceptions of "Bob" who made Chaz in the first place that matter.
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MrJest
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:59 am |
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Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:39 am Posts: 1220
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This is actually a question I pondered some time ago. Geek that I am.
See, Chaz is a battlefield weapon, designed to be used in war. My idea was that there was a certain (Chaz-Determined) scale of "corruption" or "innocence" in everyone, and that in a full-on battle where the blood of many random individuals (with random amounts of "innocent" or "corrupt" in each of them) would douse Chaz, each infusion would be weighed to add some (or none - if the victim is "Pure Evil") energy to the sword's power. However, "on average", it would retain enough power to give a significant advantage to it's wielder - and that was enough for the purposes of Chaz' semi-anonomous forger.
This would imply that "most people are, in the majority, innocent" per Chaz' scale, or the sword would not offer up a significant advantage in such a random environment as a battlefield - Instead, it would most likely be at the least a "normal" blade. As Chaz itself has noted, even in a dormant state it confers a modicum of powerto it's wielder.
What I've always wondered is "how much blood" is necessary - need it be a fatal amount? Could several "innocents" drip a certain amount of blood on the blade, thus charging it, and then bind their wounds to head on out about their business?
Mr. "Questions, always questions - rarely answers. Such is the World of Pete..." Jest
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Rocketman
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:04 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:48 am Posts: 375
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MrJest wrote: What I've always wondered is "how much blood" is necessary - need it be a fatal amount?
Doughtful, since Chaz powered up from the remaining blood in a severed arm.
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Tonkarz
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:16 am |
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:54 am Posts: 379
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Quote: Well, who was the sword bearer when alt-Bert impaled himself? Considering that Torg had not met alt-Bert, his perceptions were essentially null. Also considering the fact that Torg was not wielding the sword at the time, the distinction of innocence could not have been his to make, even subconsciously.
I just noticed this strip, where we see that Chaz did not activate until Torg grasped the hilt. In the second panel, we even see it half active; near the hilt the blade is black, and near the tip it is it's regular color.
So I guess the wielder is a factor as to whether Chaz activates in some way.
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MrJest
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:56 am |
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Tonkarz wrote: Quote: Well, who was the sword bearer when alt-Bert impaled himself? Considering that Torg had not met alt-Bert, his perceptions were essentially null. Also considering the fact that Torg was not wielding the sword at the time, the distinction of innocence could not have been his to make, even subconsciously. I just noticed this strip, where we see that Chaz did not activate until Torg grasped the hilt. In the second panel, we even see it half active; near the hilt the blade is black, and near the tip it is it's regular color. So I guess the wielder is a factor as to whether Chaz activates in some way.
Nice catch. "Pete Detail" is destined to become a household phrase.
Mr. "OK, maybe not, except in Sluggite Households..." Jest
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BlankSlate
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:56 am |
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Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:00 am Posts: 2192
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I have the image in my mind of Torg going to the bloodbank for some sword-fuel and letting a bloodbag feed Chaz. And, as soon as the first drop touches the blade, the donor who is on a business trip to Japan starts feeling ill and dies within seconds.
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Tonkarz
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:10 am |
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:54 am Posts: 379
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My image is of Oasis getting a nick from Chaz that never heals: it'll just bleed until she dies. And then she'll respawn, only to bleed out again. I base this off the fact that Chaz says that alt-Gywnn will not be able to heal alt-Fred.
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The Max
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 9:38 am |
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Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:33 am Posts: 1021
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Rocketman wrote: MrJest wrote: What I've always wondered is "how much blood" is necessary - need it be a fatal amount? Doughtful, since Chaz powered up from the remaining blood in a severed arm.
If memory serves, he just caught a few droplets of Alt-Zoe's blood too.
It makes sense that the "Unholy Evil Deathbringer" would like the taste of innocent blood. (He does get that little reddish tinge to his voice when he says it, remember.)
The idea of him requiring a wielder is interesting. What would happen if you threw him while he was charged up? Would he lose power the moment you let go, or would he keep on going?
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Tonkarz
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Post Posted: Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:34 am |
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:54 am Posts: 379
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I think he'd stay charged. Torg puts him down several times and he stays charged, so throwing him (it?) shouldn't power him down. Though Chaz would advise against it, I think, because giving away your weapon in combat is never a good idea.
It's kinda hard to tell, but I think the sword activates before Torg grabs it in the strip where alt-Fred rescues it from the demon. So, like, whoa.
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